At first glance, the story of the U.S. government grappling with evidence of unidentified flying objects has cooled off since last year, when a whistleblower claimed (without firsthand evidence) that the Pentagon had alien bodies and otherworldly spacecraft in its possession. But the past few weeks have seen a number of developments in the UFO story in Congress, where lawmakers like Chuck Schumer are trying to make the Department of Defense be more forward with their information on the unknown objects hovering over U.S. airspace. Meanwhile, the incoming Trump administration — and its UFO-curious intelligence staffers — could provide more clarity on a topic that has disappointed some alien hopefuls in the past couple years. To get an update on where things stand, I spoke with former Defense appointee and State Department staffer Marik von Rennenkampff, who has been following the story closely since leaving government.
What are the most recent developments in the government’s approach to UFOs?
There have been two House hearings within about a week. On one side, we have these whistleblowers or individuals who are claiming that there are unreported programs or activities that allegedly retrieve and reverse-engineer craft of nonhuman origin. There was also a hearing with Jon Kosloski, the new director of the government’s UFO analysis office, called AARO. It was an astounding change in tone because for 80 years, the government had said there’s nothing to this. “It’s all nonsense.”
We’ve gone from that to the sitting head of the government’s UFO analysis office saying, in essence, we have true anomalies. The direct quote is, “There are interesting cases that I — with my physics and engineering background and time in the [intelligence community] — I do not understand, and I don’t know anybody else who understands.”
The other big development seems to that lawmakers are still saying that they are not getting the full reports, and the Defense Department is still obscuring what they’re supposed to be seeing. Last week at the House hearing, Nancy Mace said that “there are certain individuals who didn’t want this hearing to happen because they feared what might be disclosed.” What are those fears?
If the intelligence community and the military had their way, nothing would ever be released, period, ever, right? Because anything out there is a potential advantage for an adversary. But there’s nothing inherently classified about the forward-looking infrared pods that are on U.S. aircraft. It’s just infrared technology. You can scrub out any of the metadata and all the symbology. You can redact that stuff and you can put out what the actual object is. But if some of this is foreign intelligence-gathering operations, we don’t want our adversaries knowing what we know about them and what we’ve discovered. So it’s challenging.
UFO disclosure is a bipartisan concern, with senators Chuck Schumer and Mike Rounds proposing a bill for further transparency. What is in this bill?
I think it is the most extraordinary legislation that has ever been proposed in the U.S. Congress. I mean, you literally have nonhuman intelligence defined and mentioned 24 times. It defines legacy program.
It’s exactly what these whistleblowers are claiming. There’s a provision for, you probably know this, but there’s a provision for the U.S. government specifically inserted into this legislation to assert eminent domain over retrieved craft and biological evidence of nonhuman intelligence. I mean, that’s just stunning to see in black-and-white, let alone that this isn’t some random representative from who knows where. This is the Senate majority leader leading a bipartisan effort.
Does it have a chance at passing?
I am a little pessimistic. After it failed in December of last year, Schumer went on the Senate floor and was furious. I mean, you could see it. He called out House Republicans for blocking this. I believe that’s where he also said that we’ve been informed by multiple credible sources that elements of the government are withholding information from Congress illegally. That’s a pretty remarkable assertion on any topic, let alone on UFOs. But Senator Rounds is locked onto this. He wants to get, he said he’s personally fairly confident that eventually some kind of review board will be approved.
I’m speaking very anecdotally here, but I feel like I’ve known a good number of people who were really excited by the UFO developments, beginning with the New York Times story in 2017 about Harry Reid funding this research. Over time, that’s become more skeptical. Some of that is due to terrestrial explanations, like balloons and camera issues. But I’ve heard some frustration about whistleblowers like David Grusch, who presents his bombshell claims with multiple degrees of separation between him and the source. Wondering what you think about that skeptics’ case of, Oh, it’s all just balloons or something.
That’s the mind-set we should all have. We should all be skeptical about this, right?
I will say, let’s talk about balloons, let’s talk about GOFAST. I’m sure you’re familiar with the GOFAST. But according to former pilot Ryan Graves, GOFAST was part of a formation of four objects that were flying in a line- abreast formation. Balloons don’t do that 300 miles off the coast of Florida.
How did you become interested in the UFO story?
I’ll be brutally honest with you, I didn’t think about UFOs. I thought it was completely tinfoil, conspiracy territory, and I missed, I’m sure you’re well familiar with the New York Times story that came out in December of 2017. I missed that completely, just as to prove the point here that I just did not think about this topic. I thought it was all nonsense. Then I stumbled upon a Joe Rogan episode with Navy commander Dave Fravor, the pilot who encountered the Tic Tac object in 2004. I knew the type, and he’s a hundred percent the real deal. I mean, I think he’s very, very well respected in the naval aviation community. So that was my ticket down the rabbit hole.
And how is the second Trump administration going to push UFO disclosures forward?
Some of the key nominees for national security positions have all made some remarkable statements about this topic in recent years. I go first and foremost to Senator Marco Rubio, who has over and over vouched for the credibility of the individuals coming forward. Mike Waltz, the national security adviser, has said he’s interested. John Ratcliffe, the CIA nominee, has said perhaps the most eyebrow-raising quote, which is that UFOs exhibit technologies that we don’t have and that we cannot defend against.
So from a transparency perspective, I’m cautiously optimistic based on what we’ve heard from these key individuals over the last few years.
